Triggering

[Pale Rider]

[Pale Rider]

First:


I may need to call my sponsor after all. (Note to self: acquire sponsor.) My wife confessed she'd stopped by NACA, and to my shame, I encouraged her to see if they were discussing the events in New Zealand. When she did, I caught a sideways glance* of this work of artifice:


"Nothing to do with me, squire."

People who claim to appreciate nuance don't seem to be able to grasp that you can be vocal about the many problems with trans ideology and not be rightwing; and that if the left wasn't so terrified of free speech these days, KJK and others wouldn't be largely confined to their platforms.

This isn't a right/left thing anyway. It's an authoritarian v liberal thing.

We need to remember that the political spectrum is made up of four areas, not the two that the politicians in this country want to reduce matters to because it allows the manipulative narrative of 'you are either with us or against us'.

In this sense the liberal left and right SHOULD be united on this and that's a GOOD thing. You would also expect to see the illiberal authoritarian left pitted against the right - from the far right to the liberal right because that's the normal left v right thing too. The thing is that the illiberal left is terrified of the unity of the liberal left and right so the only tool in the box they have is to try and tar the liberal left.

* To make matters worse, I asked who posted it. Newfhouse. Oh, Newfhouse! Come here, where it's sane. (Not literally here at NACF; that's crazytalk.) Step away from The Guardian. Some day you'll thank me.

Same offer to theclaud, who actually has been literally here. In fact it's an open invitation.

[Pale Rider]

Hell is other people.
– Traditional

I fell off the wagon. Woe is me. Headed back to where I left off late January in the gender thread, thinking to at least skim the rest.

people can read all the posts

I can only admire the optimism.

Skimming was all I had time for [Snopes: False] the stomach for [Mostly True]. I still haven't laid eyes on vast tracts. I'm surprised to have even caught this:

Even Sam's got bored and given up.

Call it boredom's cousin frustration. Read-only is hard.

Skipped a lot of multitool and AuroraSaab as I already know what they're going to say. Or so I thought. It was with dawning horror that I paused on the following.

You really have go a high opinion of yourself……just a shame its only your opinion though. The rest just think your an idiot and when you type, they are proved right.

I must confess that on occasion your théâtre de l'absurde living art installation goes over my head, but this time I've understood what you are doing. You are fashioning a reply to a given person's post, but choosing to post it quoting a random person's post (in this instance, me) thus provoking both chaos and unintended and undirected introspection.

It's genius.

A kind of post post-modern commentary on meaning(lessness), whilst also touching on both the ephemeral and socially disconnected nature of modern communication and the fragilité of human relationships. Would I be correct in thinking that it is perhaps also a coquettish nod to the Sisyphean nature of this thread, hmmmm?

I have literally no idea of where you plan to take us on this anarchic journey, but I must tell you I am excited. This is the best thing to happen on cycling fora for some time!

You have no idea how much it pains me to award that Post Of The Day; indeed, Post Of The Year to date. This despite that I inexplicably have a soft spot in my head heart for the jowwster, who is simply a different variety of Joker from multitool.

Elsewhere in the multiverse I can imagine multitool and I comrades-in-arms. Here where we're stuck, his cowardice (bullies are cowards) is the perfect partner to his calumny as witnessed on the Cycling UK forum. Having bestowed upon him this honour, I therefore now bid him fuck off, as Winjim might put it



were he allowed the full range of his expression. Speaking of whom:

I started off wanting to know more about the issue and at the start it was very illuminating, but for a while now has generated far more heat than light. There is some occasional stuff of interest but has to be searched for amidst the acrimony and mud-slinging whataboutery over which side has the nastiest supporters and which is twisting the other's words.

The actions of a few extremists aren't really relevent to my thoughts on the subject, which to me is sex and gender, not specifically trans and women's rights.

Explains a lot, old chap.

Blimey! A lot of words have been written since I partially switched off

Many of those words came from monkers. Some provided amusement.

My effort here is to try to be an explainer, a buster of myths, and lies, and promoter of truth, even where it sounds unpalatable.

Others belong on my TRANSBINGO card.

My policy is not to engage with absolutists

(Also missing: essentialist, reductionist.)

click for incredulity

199

In the USA freedom of a kind of absolute freedom of speech is guaranteed by the constitution. What the constitution could not have foreseen was the internet and social media. Combine the oppression of the vulnerable by one political party in particular, the media, in the name of freedom of speech, add the availability of guns and you can be sure to see people who are driven mad doing mad things.

Translation: Politicians largely on the right, alas where sanity tends to dwell on the subject of transgender 'rights' (even if it's just for votes, that doesn't make it wrong), are indirectly responsible for a woman unnaturally pumped with testosterone or at least paranoia losing it and killing 6 people: her own little preemptive genocide.

[close]

You've written that reply to me as if you are addressing a man. You do know that I'm not, right?

We honestly don't. This is now by design.

The trans women I know would wish to have been born female rather face the lengthy battles they endure to have that status.

Status? Given the new pecking order of MOST MARGINALISED, the judges will accept that as a Freudian slip.

As usual I find myself having to repeat what I have said before.

Tell me about it.

Discussion with you is just hopeless.

I find your long winded convoluted essays as tiresome as you find mine.

When not being condescending (a job which needs better qualifications than those evidenced), monkers can talk a good game. Aside from uncontested factual information (e.g., quoting the law, rather than interpreting it), precious little stands up to scrutiny.

There is no legal tension between the rights of women and trans women, just a perception that there is.

I’m guessing monkers is a fan of Robin Moira White.

Monkers certainly reminds me of Robin. Have they ever been seen in the same room together?

Gender critical people believe that 'sex in binary and immutable'. Modern scientist who are specialists in this field say that it really isn't.

Ah, "specialists in this field." That would be the field of science fiction, which is burgeoning.

These days there is attack from the left wing from the TERFs

Our friend DARVO.

[Snopes: tied with multitool]

I agree with a lot of what you say. What I disagree with is the attempts (often by both sides of the debate) to terrorise and silence people.

Please post videos of violent mobs of TERFs, and a scintilla of proof of trans activists being silenced or indeed of anyone trying to do that. I'll wait.

Note that AuroraSaab – who continues to be outnumbered (accounting for some of my frustration) but not outgunned – does not throw around personal insults like monkers and multitool do.

A good-to-read article in Pink News yesterday.

Oxymoron. Happy to be absolutist on that score.



Thought I'd end on a laugh.

[Pale Rider]

https://youtu.be/ulqf3KNd8IM

Gender again. Sorry!

Within these walls we (mostly) have a group of open minded, educated and reasonably well informed people struggling to get their heads around something which is clearly very complex and highly emotive to those that it impacts. I am disappointed at the petty nastiness shown toward people trying to debate in good faith and challenging their own beliefs.

The following exchange pretty well sums up the poles of the debate on this thread, once again on my watch list, with a huge reservoir to dip into:

There's literally nothing that would make you pause for a minute and think about the impact of gender ideology on young people, girls, and women. Literally nothing. Not men in women's jails or sports, not kids at the Tavistock being rushed into transition, not the growing number of detransitioners.

Faux concern for girls as ammunition for your monobore confected obsession. You went down the rabbit hole. The rest of us know this stuff is fantasy and bears no relation to the real world, despite your endless screenshots from transhate sites.

I think a lot of people haven't gotten much more up to speed than Jeremy Clarkson, who whilst not entirely devoid of thoughtfulness, still seems to think you can be born in the wrong body.



FF, ask yourself why some people are trying so very hard to get men into women's spaces. Maybe start from there. Then ask yourself how many of us on Team TERF actually sound like bigots.

The mental gymnastics you're prepared to do to convince yourself are astounding.

Wouldn't gymnastics take the singular verb form here; "is astounding"?

I call grammar Nazi.

And does this mean that being exercised about trans issues could serve as a prophylactic against Alzheimer's in the same way as cryptic crosswords, classical music, learning another language?

Well, they are trying to get us to learn another language.

For me it's a free speech issue, insofar as I've been censored and banned from forums for being polite, reasonable, and on the wrong side of those in charge of the dialogue. Beyond my little world, I don't like what transgender ideologues are doing to society.

The reason I bother stick my head above the parapet on this is because if we here cannot debate this here with a generally liberal and reasonable positive and open-minded bunch of minds without resorting to nastiness, how the bloody hell are we to effect any change in mindset from debate within wider society at large?

You know who's most likely to affect change in society at large? Kelly-Jay Keen, who even AuroraSaab distances herself from. (As do many feminists – see what may as well be called the KJK issue of The Radical Notion.) Fortunately at least one Minister of State is listening as Keen empowers women to speak out despite often coordinated intimidation. Loud hailers and noisemakers used right in the face of those at Let Women Speak events cause real violence to eardrums, btw.



Maybe give this a read (mudsticks too):

What Posie Parker learnt from Brexit

What happened last weekend in New Zealand isn’t confined to one side of an otherwise principled political debate, in which a few bad actors are spoiling things for everyone else. It’s the latest instance of a post-democratic style of politics now well on its way to being the new normal.

And this, because THINK OF THE CHILDREN! stopped being a funny meme a while ago:

Schools are failing in their duty to protect gender-distressed children

Policy Exchange’s vital report today has demonstrated that there is a mass breaching of safeguarding principles when it comes to the issue of gender-distressed children and their peers.

Note multitool's spin on this same story: a shot of the Daily Heil (which has actually been doing some decent work on these issues, to the consternation of many on my side), followed by a series of questions, some of which I'd also be asking if they had anything to do with the report. Is MT secretly GC?

Multitool, I retract my earlier less than politely worded request and offer the following link, which may be of interest to students of rhetoric. First let's get this out of the way.

Speaking of furries. Viewer discretion advised.

Is it time for a new Multitool avatar?

You'll have to scroll back to previous pages see how this evolved. Who knows how I many missed while away.

I see the gang discovered Sophie Labelle.



I've taken liberties with the 3rd panel, left blank in the original as Sophie's signature money shot.

[close]

Now then:
The violent rhetoric of trans activists has to stop

The truth is that the subculture that has grown up around trans identities too often excuses, legitimises, and even glorifies violence... This goes hand-in-hand with a toxic dynamic called phobia indoctrination: the attempt to instil irrational fears in members of a high-control group in order to manipulate them.

There’s no clearer example of how phobia indoctrination operates within trans communities than the invention and propagation of ‘trans genocide’ narratives.

Trans day of vengeance?

I know transactivism gets a pass for all kinds of questionable behaviour, but nobody sane will see the word vengeance and think it justified. They just won’t. Visibility, pride, remembrance… these are all either peaceful or positive (or both).

Their protests against women have neither been peaceful, nor positive in recent months, but to actually say the quiet part out loud suggests to me that they are genuinely losing the plot badly and have moved far beyond the realms of what any sane person would see as justifiable.

I hope they go ahead with this and that it is given as much publicity as the press can give. Vengeance is not a good look.

We are planning a counter protest:

Terfs Day of Tea cakes.

It's not going to be as aggressive, unless someone accidentally brings rock cakes instead of tea cakes.

Who am I kidding; nobody ever wins the battle of links. Or memes.


*For avoidance of doubt, that's 'PENISES'.
In case you haven't already seen that word enough to last a lifetime.

199

At the risk of self polluting the thread…

About school shootings, in this case the one in Nashville. Brings me back to the apology in the very title of the gender thread. If people sound almost afraid to start these conversations (as enough actually are), the first question on our lips should be why. Why is it highly emotive? Who made it that way, and again why? Depending how you answer, I expect you'll fall on one side of these issues or the other. I would argue we're tiptoeing around men's feelings at great expense to women.

[Pale Rider]

It's been established that a select group of forums and their denizens resist eviction from my head. I've decided to give them all roles in my upcoming space opera Captain's Blog, planned as a collision of Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica. Stay tuned for the pilot episode.

I keep having to log in

Normally it's a bit of a pain but not too much hassle as my phone has my login stored. Today though I was writing a fairly lengthy post which I'd put some thought into and the forum logged me out and deleted it…

Most of the post was saved but there was a particularly witty and erudite paragraph which has sadly been lost in the ether. It's a shame because it was a paragon of perspicacity which I sure would have convinced all who read it of the veracity of the argument made therein.

Spare a thought for us enemies of the state who can't log in at all; whose perspicacity is like the tree falling in the forest. Or something.

Triggering

jowwster, who is simply a different variety of Joker from multitool.

Some would say it takes one to know one.

But Where Are You Really From?

Careful. You might turn into another Sam.

replicated for this occasion

Captain's Log, stardate the Ides of March. Starfleet Command requests a survey of yet another planet. Ensigns Lyon, Tinman, and Scarecrow are beamed to their doom. In the autopsies Bones discovers they're all missing something. I warned them not to wear red. Spock offers to complete the mission. Once in the field he goes native, his logic bent by the prism of expedience. His rescue will have to wait for the sequel. I order Sulu to warp us the hell out of there. "Where to?" he asks. "Don't ask, don't tell," I tell him. He closes his eyes and throws a dart at his star chart (a good helmsman knows his captain). We may not be going anywhere in particular, but I'll be damned if we won't do it boldly.

[close]

Oh, I've got cautionary tales to spare, not all of which involve surfing through forums.

I'm just a snarky git with a good forum memory

and the grace to be an occasional wayfinder,

I take a very different position to Sam on the subject under discussion, but posting things on CC has long been one of the ways I work out what I think about things. If you don't create a meaningful community where complex subjects can be ranged over, unpicked, skimmed, plumbed, or allowed to ping off in other directions, it's hardly surprising if what you get is entrenchment, amongst the community and at the margins of it.

particularly given the distance between our positions on what has turned into one of my monobore confected obsessions specialist subjects. I wonder what it would be like if I could post on her gender thread! It's been a challenge as it is; I started the nearby Dealbreakers thread as only half a joke, with exactly this in mind. We both use this format to work things out. Thus my addiction, so often punctuated with heartbreak.

As to the OP:

An old favourite.

[Pale Rider]

Today I woke up with a new appreciation for the empathetic and compassionate qualities of multitool, who now bestrides NACA like Colossus.




Sorry. It may be April 1st, which is almost a sacred day here at NACF, but I can't do it. I do see that he woke up with his usual urge to fling what I was sure would be an insult at AuroraSaab, once I looked up 'aphantasics'.

An interesting article on sex difference:

https://psyche.co/ideas/what-sex-difference-science-misses-about-the-messy-reality-of-sex

Probably best that the aphantasics, like Aurora, don't read it.

Fortunately I didn't have far to look.

There’s an early memory from my childhood, representative of its peak happiness. I’m on a simple, iron child’s seat on my father’s bike. He’s just picked me up from kindergarten and is taking me home through the forest on the way to our house. It is a spectacularly fluorescent Danish spring, and we’re travelling through woodland illuminated, from above, by the light-green foliage of the tall beeches only just coming into soft leaves and, from below, by snow-white forest anemones spreading around us in dense, endless carpets.

Bringing this scene to my mind, I don’t ‘see’ anything. I have aphantasia, the neurological condition of being unable to visualise imagery, also described as the absence of the ‘mind’s eye’.

Yay, she mentioned a bike. I wish she'd mentioned fish as well, because I have a good picture for that.


Don't take the bait! Saturday night live becomes Sunday leftovers.

Next stop Nyctophobia:

In this short film, the French Canadian filmmaker and set designer Jean-François Boisvenue explores how a lifetime of precarious mental health culminated in an excruciating period of depersonalisation in his early 20s. Using animated light displays projected onto his body to convey his sense of discord, Boisvenue recalls how depersonalisation swept over him, upending his sense of self and reality for months before he was able to heal.

Now I'm wondering if there's an app for animated light displays projected onto my body to convey a sense of discord. Perhaps it's as simple as watching a Sam Smith video in a darkened room. Wait, here's a better clip:

Having wandered round the block, I should really go back to that interesting article on sex difference and see how long it takes for my benighted worldview to come crashing down.

It opens with a shot of a woman on a beach standing next to a gentleman who can safely be called an endomorph. Despite the woman's slim build, I was immediately reminded of that old cartoon of a man and woman facing each other, two pieces of a jigsaw puzzle fitting together as her ample bust carves out a space in his sunken chest, his well fed belly serving as a shelf for said bust. Alas I couldn't find it, but this came up in the search.

click to view the human body in its diversity

Another victim

[close]

while sex is an important part of our biology and society, the search for biological differences can lead us astray, too.

I for one am ready to be guided to an appreciation for the messy reality of sex beyond my current understanding that if it's not messy, you're not doing it right.

what science can tell us about sex is often far removed from what we actually care about

That explains why the Kama Sutra wasn't peer-reviewed.

It doesn't take long to see that Lockhart takes a dim view of all those darned studies exploring the differences between the sexes; it's clear he's more approving of scientists who

are sceptical of arguments that men and women have fundamentally different abilities, arguing instead that they have innately different preferences. In other words, these scholars do not argue that women are incapable of doing what men do, but rather that they are biologically programmed to want other things...

‘Hype and hyperbole’ distort both the public’s and scientists’ understanding of sex differences to make them seem more common and larger than they really are.

No gender critical person believes we should be limited by our sex. We just don't accept, for example, that women would start bringing home half the gold in mixed-sex sports competitions if they were but raised to try harder. Or that better male socialisation will close the rape gap.

A wordcount of 'essential', 'essentialist' and 'essentialism' shows that we're firmly in Rain Man genderist territory.

Reading essentialist scientific descriptions of sex differences can make people endorse gender stereotypes more, even if the science is about sex in plants.

You'll be hard pressed to find any of us endorsing gender stereotypes, though personally I like my wife in skirts, and the feeling isn't mutual. I will admit that I don't usually think of men when the image of a rose pops into my head. (Speaking of stereotypes.)

The article was natural catnip to multitool; the author even managed to squeeze in "Right-wing extremists".

(I don't rate this, and only embedded it because it hit the trifecta)

It continues to confound me that people get the GC position backwards. I think you'll find it's transfolx going big on the pink.

Our political, social and even most of the biological interest in sex lies elsewhere, in myriad sex-related things including hormone levels, muscle and fat distribution, body hair, voice pitch, physical and mental abilities, personality traits and preferences, and so on. Unlike gametes or chromosomes, these are things we see, hear and feel, and none of them are remotely binary or fixed.

Tl;dr for too many essays: The men really want in and aren't taking no for an answer.

Interesting take on the "scenes" from Australia, NZ.

Those of us without diseased minds saw a huge number of non-trans people showing up because they didn't want that little fascist cûnt stirring up hate in their country.

Posie farking-Yaxley Robinson has just cancelled her trip to Dublin...citing a clash with Joe Biden's visit bwa ha ha haha. Like the city isn't big enough for the two of them

Little Kellie knows the game is up. She's niche. Real niche. Most people aren't hate-filled cùnts.

The bonus cunt was added in an edit (the diacritical marks a clever dick move to circumvent CC's bowdleriser). As someone very edit-prone myself, I appreciate that he wants to get it just right.

I don't respect you or your views... They are horrid, mealy-mouthed, manipulative and dishonest and your tactics are cheap, base and dishonest. You rely on misrepresentation and straight up lying.

Psyche offers How to have better arguments. I've written my own guide.



Quiz: Who is Itchy and who Scratchy?

Spoiler

[close]

Here's one reason the Gender thread is approaching the 3000 post mark:

AuroraSaab: It's not just KJK events that the people you cheer on turn up at though. They turn up wherever women are meeting to discuss women's rights. They try to get women sacked or cancelled for stuff as basic as saying biology is real and sex matters. And they use the language that you use on here. The aim of course isn't to stop KJK talking. The aim is to make all women afraid to talk, meet, and organise.
monkers: They are protesting the hate. Trans rights are human rights too.
multitool: "All Women." There you go again with your dishonest bullshït. You do not speak for all women…
icowden to monkers: By punching women in their 60s and silencing women across the country. It's a bit pot and kettle...
multitool: Every single protestor punched a 60 year old, did they? How do you know they "silenced women across the country"? Half the protestors WERE women.

Multitool's favourite trick is calling out faulty distribution where it's not intended. He sees an "All", says "Aha - not all!", thus painfully prolonging the process of proving him wrong. As he always is. (Now that's faulty distribution.)

because I respect women's views and privilege them over my own, that is who I listen to.

Looks like somebody thinks we're all fools.

[Pale Rider]

Thinking cap

Gender Again. Sorry!

My views on the transgender issue are quite simple. I can understand the difference between one's sex and gender and perfectly well understand there are people whose gender does not match their birth sex and wish to transition. These people need to be able to lead the life they wish without criticism or abuse. I can also understand the limited number of occasions such as some physical sports or use of traditionally single sex facilities such as toilets, where they are not allowed to have exactly the same access rights as their chosen gender...unless the vast majority of that gender have no issues and are prepared to accept them. There are limits to absolute freedom and rights within any society depending on the mores of that society. I do not consider it transphobic to have concerns about these issues.

The issue is complicated by aspects such as what form of criteria are acceptable for gender change recognition ranging from a simple declaration to gender re-assignment surgery, and I do not yet have a view on what the criteria should be.

I view the most extreme and abusive supporters of either side of the argument, in this country and the US, with equal distaste and do not believe the views of those extremes to be any reasonable guide to the views of most people on either side. I am not a great supporter of 'the right is on my side' or 'they started it' when it comes to verbal or physical abuse or threats, believing that they just deepen the polarisation. The tweet above about that woman protesting at the school's action over her child's transition actually proves nothing about the issues involved, nor makes any resolution easier, but is about apportioning blame and a further reflection of this polarisation.

This thread should be an opportunity for all issues to be discussed, as I believe was Claud's aim in starting it, but sadly it has turned toxic and is far too much about apportionment of blame.

I like Rusty. Rusty is a reasonable guy. He's written a reasonable post. I've given this post a fair amount of thought. This is my conclusion:

Unless Rusty stops by to challenge this, I'm content to let it stand as my rebuttal.

At some point during my absence I see that Rusty and multitool took positions on each other.

multitool: What on earth makes you think I care less what you think? Have I not been clear enough
Rusty Nails: Rent Free
multitool: The last thing you do is occupy any space in my head, pal

I don't like multitool. I think multitool is a psychopath – and no, I don't think that's too strong a word. It's exactly the right word.

The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter. ’tis the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.

This is my reply to the 535 posts multitool has made on this thread as of early o'clock this morning:

Yes I counted, though I'm not normally one for stats. I was curious how monobore was his obsession. For the record, AuroraSaab, who's also been called a monobore, clocks in at 577 for the same time period starting from January 8th when multitool rolled into town (after all of 13 posts back at the mothership). Consider that she has a lot more skin in the game than he does, unless you count what he has to lose in terms of misogynist's rights.

As he appears to take some interest in the life of the mind,

it is clear that he has lost his mind

those of us without diseased minds

I'm going to introduce a concept that will blow Aurora's mind

hate cultist Maya Forster loses her mind

here's a scan of my brain. See if you can spot the area of concern:



The problem isn't that multitool's views are the opposite of mine, which of course [underlined to highlight its extreme obviousness] are the only views a sensible person would hold on this particular topic: it's that he's unremittingly, irredeemably dishonest. Like monkers (who is slyly better at justifying TRA violence), he can talk a good game, but there's a rottenness at the core.

Here is an actual scan of his brain. Best not to ask how I obtained it.



As long as I'm at it, here's one of the sheep

so often outside the window of NACF HQ. Guess what's on their minds.

go on, guess

[close]

Sorry, where were we again? Gender.

If women's rights and safety and well being were properly respected, if women and their needs their diversity even, were not so often disregarded, then we wouldn't need to be having this discussion.

Welcome to our timeline.

Never mind 'rusty 'we need some 'hard as'

We can't just have you being mildly to moderately concerned, taking a measured view, listening carefully, considering all viewpoints or any of that tedious anodyne, wishy washy
"Well I can see some valid views on both sides" kind of liberal hogwash..

You must very very firmly
'Nail' your colours to the mast, pick a 'side' like it's 'serious' battle, and start spilling some blood OK??

I mean this is t'internet right ??

It is serious in more ways than NACAns have shown a willingness to discuss.

Wishy-washy is what got us where we are now, which is indeed like something out of a horror movie.

on edit:

I originally wrote "'A measured view' is what got us where we are now," copying mudsticks' phrase without thinking too much about it; simply conflating it with 'reasonable', my word for Rusty Nails, whom I've decided to haul before this tribunal again. My point was that what passes for measured debate concerning the rights of trans-identifying men

surely you mean trans women

Although I use that formulation along with nearly everyone else, it has been one way of immediately ceding ground, trans women in fact being a subset of men.

Behold the power of words.

[close]

as they impact the rights of women always seems to do a disservice to women.

Behold reason:

No seriously, behold reason. I've posted this before, but everything old is new again:

One more? One more.



Even moreish.

Isn't it good to see what happens in a room when no one is shouted down, heckled, where mistruths are immediately challenged, where everyone is given space to talk.

[Trans] people need to be able to lead the life they wish without criticism or abuse.

Fancy being able to live one's life without criticism. That doesn't sound like a human right available to all: it sounds like a privilege to be afforded a select minority.

A pastor in North Dakota has gone one better, inviting parody.

And Jesus spake unto them saying, "she/he/they who is without sin, murder the first 3 children, and add onto that 3 adults for good measure." And the crowd put down their stones and took up their guns, ready to spread the gospel of the good news to all nations: that vengeance is not the Lord's, as the prophets of old had taught, but "hate has consequences."

The Gospel of The Apostle Saint Judith (she/they) 13:69

Not being multitool I know Rusty didn't mean we can't criticise the new sacred caste at all. However, it still reads as if there should be an assumption of righteousness. An Immaculate Conception, if you will. As for the Daily Mail story, one may scoff at the source (as I do with nearly everything appearing in Penis News), and make an independent translation of the pastor's actual words, but to emerge without jaw dropped is to admit at least some indoctrination by the cult religion. Speaking of which, nuns. Great role models, as my wife who went to Catholic school will tell you. AuroraSaab nails it:

Are gender critical women stopping the nuns from speaking? Are they chucking soup over them or punching them in the face? Or carrying sign suggesting they should be decapitated?

You seem to be trying to give the impression that feminists are stopping other women from speaking. They aren't. That would be 'your' side. I asked before but you didn't reply: Can you find me any photos of gender critical women turning up at trans demos or meetings to abuse and intimidate them?

That's a reply to multitool. After the usual stop at parasitical neo-nazis he pivots to the bogs. We've all been there.

Look, if you truly 'pass' (in all likelihood you don't, but women have been too polite to say so), then by definition nobody will notice and there's no issue as nobody wants genital police. Though I'm sure there's a pornhub category for it.

The problem is when you normalise men who can't be questioned for being where they shouldn't be. Like so.

There's a better discussion at Mumsnet than is ever likely to happen at NACA, especially considering that the one person who usually nails it, doesn't. Toilets functioned reasonably well before trans rights activists threw a spanner in the way society works, eh?

Let's have a musical interlude.

Back to Rusty:

I view the most extreme and abusive supporters of either side of the argument, in this country and the US, with equal distaste

"Abusive" is, as they say, doing a lot of heavy lifting here.



Too many TRAs are demonstrably menacing and violent in the old-fashioned sense of the word as well as in language, whereas TERFs are physically hands off and tend to use actually reasonable language, which TRAs famously regard as literal violence and sympathisers regard as hurty at the very least. This both sidesism so beloved of the 'reasonable' person is exhausting and wrong.

You do wonder how much NACAns like Rusty Nails expose themselves to. Reading this, I could easily imagine them nodding their heads along with the BBC, determined not to stray far from the approved narrative.

I have ascertained that Rusty wants society to be very measured as it navigates its way to letting women complain about men in their spaces.

And if you’re aware of the Dentons document you’ll know trans activists have been measured indeed, as in carefully considered in their tactics.

As we continue to witness the methodical destruction of women's rights, I was perhaps not wrong in alighting upon the word myself, but there was better language to hand, courtesy mudsticks: wishy and its mate washy. A nearly perfect encapsulation. Cheers.

[Pale Rider]

Can you imagine if a transgender speaker were assaulted and effectively held hostage while a crowd screamed outside the door? The Guardian and Penis News would be spurting uncontrollably. Got to love how CNN even kept "the disruption" in quotes, as it was indeed a quote, but simultaneously downplaying and calling it into question.

Not 100% sure, but I may have spotted multitool & monkers:



See also Mobbed but Unbowed, an interview with their favourite neo-Nazi.

The Queen / The Monarchy

Much Frothing is a bucolic little place populated by purple-faced retired colonels with shotguns and cirrhosis, and their wives who spend their time sewing, cooking, and shredding their neighbours' reputations over garden fences.

Post Of The Day.

Gender Again

There are mountains to be climbed, but this really isn't one of them. In fact it's a bit like everesting on a molehill.

Winner of the first Molehill Award? (We await confirmation on what exactly is the molehill Ian is referring to.) Let's just say this award doesn't have the same cachet as a POTD. It is a step up from the Jowwy Award.

[Pale Rider]

Are you people for real?

Damn you shep for triggering an existential crisis.

Do these people I've been posting about actually exist? Has this all been an elaborate psyop by Shaun, for my benefit? Assuming I'm real.

Am I?

Don't answer that!

once again outside NACF HQ:

Who said that?

[Pale Rider]

Gender again

I envy women being pre-endowed with a clutch of eggs from the off, needing only to unwrap one from time to time, while men - the true creatives in the reproductive endeavour - must toil and strain to manufacture from scratch, ex nihilo, gazillions of energetic, fleet-footed, keen sperms.
No wonder men die younger.

This is the only content I'm here for at this stage of the thread.

Oh I don't know. Agreed chimp delivered Post Of The Day^® material, but monkers outdid monkerself with that truly inspired lunch with Betty.

I am also compelled by the irksome bloggers' code of ethics, which alas includes honesty, to note that multic*nt is doing some sterling work when he isn't busy shilling for the progressive men's rights movement. It really is a shame he's such a

* Just a little reminder. I'm using his preferred terminology (scroll up) to foster a greater understanding.

. . .

He can't help humping the thread, or at least posting with one hand.

As long as we're doing memes...


This is crying out for footnotes!





Three Score & Ten ride, 16th April

It's the day before my birthday, but don't let that alarm you.

The ancient randonneur has amused me over the years. Unfortunately he stopped being so amusing when he lost the ability to discern reality and started falling for rubbish like this, but that wouldn't stop me from joining him for a spin were I in the neighbourhood. I'd even bring a mirror.